American Morning

Hey, Vic, good morning.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Soledad.

O’BRIEN: Cliff May, former RNC communications director, now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, also with us this morning.

Nice to see you, Cliff. Good morning. Happy New Year to both to you guys.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC COMM. DIR.: Thank you. You too.

O’BRIEN: Let’s get right to it. Thank you very much.

What do you think, Cliff — let’s start with you — this is going to be to the Mideast peace process. We know that certainly with the large number, percentage-wise, that Mahmoud Abbas was able to walk away with, he certainly has a mandate. But a mandate for what exactly? Do you think this means peace is close to certainty as it’s ever been?

MAY: No, I think it’s an optimistic moment. But I think that’s the most you can say. And it depends on how Mahmoud Abbas uses this moment. In your report just now, Guy Raz called Abbas a moderate. I respectfully disagree. A moderate is somebody who says terrorism is wrong, you don’t murder other people’s children. He’s never said that. What he has said is that terrorism is not helping the Palestinian cause at this time, so we shouldn’t use it. That’s very different. I don’t think he’s done a lot in this campaign to prepare the Palestinian people for hard compromises with Israel, but that doesn’t mean he can’t do it now.

And also this was not a competitive election. Mustafa Barghouti was the only who was one against him. Again, Guy Raz called him a human rights activist. I disagree. He was supported tacitly by Hamas, a terrorist organization. So it’s going to be hard thing to tell Palestinians that Arafat is wrong, Israel won’t be wiped off the face of the earth, we have to make some hard compromises, or we’re going to sacrifice more generations of Palestinian children.

O’BRIEN: Vic, what do you think President Bush should be doing right now at this clearly critical time?

KAMBER: Well, I think this is one time he has to wait just a little bit and see where Mahmoud Abbas puts his initial emphasis. I think, again, your reporter, Guy Raz, said that he has to use the next few days to start sorting out his government, start putting people in place.

Unlike Cliff, I have — I am more hopeful. While the definition of a moderate can be debated, he clearly is a moderate within the Palestinian context of who ran for office. It’s the first chance we’ve had in a long time I think to see a potential peace beginning in the Middle East. It’s not going to happen overnight. Just because there’s an election doesn’t mean it will happen. Israel has to come to the table. Palestinians still has to a agree on what they want to do and how they want to do it and have to step away from terrorist tactics. And I think George Bush can be the moderator and hopefully bring peace to the Mideast, but I think we have a little wait and see yet.

O’BRIEN: All right let’s change gears in the little bit of time that we have left and talk a little bit about Social Security. There are some who say the White House is using scare tactics.

Vic, why don’t you tackle this one for us. People have been red flagging Social Security for years. Why is it now scare tactics?

KAMBER: Well, I think the whole approach of this administration to virtually every activity they’ve undertaken is try to scare the American public into believing that this is a crisis that has to be dealt with. That’s how we got in the war in Iraq. We’re there because of weapons of mass destruction, because of ties to 9/11. We scare the American public, and then we go in.

With Social Security, there’s no doubt we have to tackle Social Security if we want to deal with it in the next 15, 20, 30 years. There’s no fear of it next year or the following year. The difference becomes let’s not scare America; let’s educate them about the problems, let’s explore the possible opportunities, and then let’s take some action. But what the Bush administration wants, they’ve got 18 months, in their view, to do something. So if you scare people now, you can rush something through legislatively.

O’BRIEN: You think it’s rushing?

MAY: No, I think this is an area, an issue we’ve been avoiding for years and years. I think that everybody understands that when Social Security was created, there was something like 16 workers for every retiree. Now it’s something like two workers for every retiree. Young people don’t really believe they’re going to get Social Security. We have an opportunity now to possibly fix it. Democrats and Republicans will have to get together if they’re going to fix it, or we can say, never mind, let’s look at this again in 10 or 20 years or whatever. But I think it’s an urgent issue, and it’s one I think Bush deserves credit for trying to tackle now.

KAMBER: No one disagrees we shouldn’t try to tackle something. The difference is, do you scare people into doing something quickly, or do you take the time, the thoughtful time and look at the problem over the next year to two years and come up with the legislative solution?

O’BRIEN: Let me ask another question, because obviously, there’s much more to debate on Social Security as time goes by. I want to ask you a quick question, though, before we run out of time about Newt Gingrich. Word is that maybe he’s considering a presidential run. At least he hasn’t actively said that he would not. Why don’t you start with this, Vick. What do you think of that?

KAMBER: I have a smile on my face. I’m going to with a Gingrich for president button, then I’m assured the Democrats will win in 2008. This man has more baggage and more problems, and frankly, couldn’t bring about a united Republican Party, let alone a united America.

O’BRIEN: And, Cliff, what do you think?

MAY: Let me tell you, Soledad, I’ve known Newt Gingrich for a number of years. He is one of the smartest people I’ve ever met, one of the most intellectually creative people I’ve met. But Vic is right, he brings baggage; he’ll have to change his image over the next four years if he wants to win either a nomination or the election. So do such people as Hillary Clinton. It’s not impossible to do.

O’BRIEN: Not impossible to do is not exactly the warmest way to put it.

MAY: He’s a brilliant guy, a brilliant guy, and he’s a policy thinker, like few other politicians I know in this town. I’m a great fan of his, but yes, he has an image problem, partly because he’s been demonized by Democrats, partly because…

KAMBER: And partly because of his own actions.

MAY: Well, we can debate, which of his actions you think are so terrible.

O’BRIEN: We could, but you know what, we’re not, because we’re out of time.

Gentlemen, as always, nice to see you. Thanks for being with us — Bill.