Rage Against the Regime: Music as Rebellion

DUBOWITZ: Welcome to “The Iran Breakdown,” the podcast where we expose the cracks in the Islamic Republic and amplify some of the voices working to bring it down. Today’s guest is Liraz Charhi, an Israeli actress and singer with deep Iranian roots, and one of the most defined cultural voices pushing back against the regime. Born in Israel to Persian-Jewish parents who escaped Khomeini’s Islamist revolution, Liraz grew up with one foot in freedom and the other haunted by the country her family left behind. Her music, performed in Persian and Hebrew, isn’t just art; it’s defiance. Liraz has secretly collaborated with Iranian female musicians inside Iran, women banned from singing solo in public. They record their voices in whispers, locked behind doors, and sent to her through encrypted apps. She’s also brought some of these female musicians to Europe where they’ve performed together, hiding their faces to protect their identities and their loved ones.

Every note is an act of rebellion. Every track is a risk. If the sound feels familiar, that is because it is. The theme song of “The Iran Breakdown” podcast comes from her Persian language song, “Roya,” a haunting anthem that means “dream,” but hits like a call to wake up. In this episode, we dive into how these Iranian-Israeli collaborations began, what it means to make music under tyranny, and why Liraz refuses to be silent. This isn’t a story just about art; it’s a story about defiance against the mullahs who rule Iran. This is “The Iran Breakdown.” And I’m your host, Mark Dubowitz. So let’s break it down. Liraz, welcome to the podcast.

CHARHI: Thank you for having me, Mark. I’m so excited to meet you here.

DUBOWITZ: It’s so wonderful to see you again. And we’re doing this podcast from Tel Aviv. I know you live in Jaffa, right?

CHARHI: Yeah.

DUBOWITZ: Just down the street.

CHARHI: Yeah.

DUBOWITZ: And Liraz, I want to start with your story. It’s an amazing story about your family, about your deep Persian roots, and obviously your connection, growing up in Israel, to your country that your parents fled. Tell us a little bit about their story and your story.

CHARHI: So I was born to both parents who immigrated from Iran to Israel back at the ’60s and the ’70s, before the revolution, because they felt the revolution is starting to happen. They were used to live in Jewish neighborhoods. They needed to hide they’re religious. My mom, she moved from one school to the other because she needed to read from the Quran every day. And it was very challenging to hide the fact that she’s Jewish. A lot of antisemitism back at the time that started to really, really grow. And of course, they’re Zionist. So they had the courage, both of my family sides, to move to Israel. My parents, they met here in Israel. And while they were new, new people here, like olim chadashim [new immigrants], they got married and brought me and my brothers in Ramla, which is a province, let’s say, 40 minutes from Tel Aviv.

And I grew up, I can say, definitely with both identities. I grew up in a very, very Iranian, strict home, and felt the major difference of the Israeli outside doors life. Meaning that I’m always saying when I’m having concerts that the metaphor and how do I reflect it is that: I was walking on the crossroad from home to school, and at the same time I was going out from home to school, I switched my identities. Inside, I was very the obeying good Iranian girl, saying yes to everything, and respecting my parents, of course. And you can just imagine from the religious to food to the way that they grew me up, I was very, very, very Iranian.

And outside, when I switched this person, I was the out-loud artist who really wants to be on stage to sing, to play, to dance. And I got really, really confused because I carried, for many years, both characters. I was like a little girl, like an agent. I was really confused. And when I was a teenager, I started to ask a lot of question about my heritage. And my parents always told me beautiful stories about Iran. The people, the culture, the views, the food. Everything sounded very, very beautiful and powerful. And I really wished all my life to visit in Iran. Then I–

DUBOWITZ: Where were they from in Iran, Liraz?

CHARHI: They’re from Tehran, both of them. But they have backgrounds from Isfahan and Khomsar, which is a village in–

DUBOWITZ: And how many generations does your family go back in Iran?

CHARHI: I cannot say, but–

DUBOWITZ: I mean, multiple generations?

CHARHI: Yeah. Definitely.

DUBOWITZ: Stretching back maybe decades, if not hundreds of years?

CHARHI: Yes.

DUBOWITZ: Wow.

CHARHI: They don’t have family that connected to Israel until they moved to Israel. In ’64, my dad arrived, and my mom in 1970. Yeah.

DUBOWITZ: So, you grew up as an Iranian-Israeli and an Israeli-Iranian with both identities.

CHARHI: Complex situation. And I was like – I had a lot of rage because every time I wanted to explore my roots and my heritage, I opened the television and the radio, and what I saw is Ahmadinejad and different, different, different stories about Iran. It’s the opposite. The thing that really broke my heart is the oppressed people, especially the oppressed women. I cannot say why since I was a teenager, but I understood it afterwards, when I started to sing.

DUBOWITZ: Let’s talk a little bit about your career. It’s funny you mentioned this sense that you were an agent, which reminds me that you starred in the Apple [TV+] series, “Tehran,” where you played a–

CHARHI: I was Kadosh. Yeah.

DUBOWITZ: Right. You played a Mossad agent. Now, spoiler alert for anyone who has not watched that wonderful series. But it’s interesting because in the show, at the end of season one, it is revealed that you are not a Mossad agent, but you’re actually a double agent working on behalf of the Islamic Republic. Can you tell us a little bit about the show, the story that–

CHARHI: Yes. Really, I got identified with the Yael Kadosh character because it was very natural for me to understand that she has both characters. And that’s the way I grew up. And always asked myself, “Who am I? Am I Iranian? Am I Israeli?” At some point, I must say, and also when I worked on Yael Kadosh part with the team and the director, Danny Syrkin, which is amazing, I understand that at some point, you need to make a choice. Who are you? And this is what I did. I was neglecting my Iranian roots. I said, “Okay. I’m not Iranian. That’s it. I’m Israeli. I was born here. My parents has the story. Iran changed. I cannot do anything about that. And it bothers me. So I’ve decided to be Israeli. Period.”

When my parents spoke to me in Farsi, I always answered in Hebrew. When they spoke to me Farsi in front of neighbors and friends, I said, “Mom, Ivrit. Dad, Ivrit. Hebrew. Don’t speak to me in Farsi.” Same as Yael, has this conflict. But when I read the script, I was telling Danny Syrkin, the director, “okay, most of the time she’s speaking over the phone, and she gives permission or not to do this and that.” And he said, “Please read it until the end.” At the end, Yael revealing the fact that she chose Iran, which was a big thing for me. Because while the TV series was on, the Israeli were saying, “Oh, wow. You did an amazing job. Great role.” And it was COVID, everyone was home and just watched the show.

DUBOWITZ: Right. You’re playing this Mossad handler. So you’re handling the main agent, who is a Mossad agent, who is–

CHARHI: Yes. Tamar Rabinyan.

DUBOWITZ: –Tamar, who is in Iran. And you’re the main handler talking to her, giving her instructions.

CHARHI: Yes. A lot of instructions over the phone. And I would say, “Oh my God, this role is not going anywhere. I can do it, but I need the sassiness of this role.” And then he said, “Please read it until the end.” At the end, Yael is taking a side. She’s choosing Iran. And that was the point that I understood that I’m getting haters from Iran saying, “Oh, you chose Israel. And we Iranian love your music here in Iran.” It was my second Iranian album that was out at this time, and it was really, really well-known in Iran. It was like, “Oh, we love your music, but why are you taking Israel’s side? Why did you took this role?” And then the haters, until when we get to the last chapter of the series, the haters came from Israel saying, “Why did you choose the Iranian side?” And the Iranian was saying, “Oh my God, thank you.” There was so–

DUBOWITZ: Right. Amazing reflection of this double identity and this challenge that you had–

CHARHI: Exactly.

DUBOWITZ: –between these two identities.

CHARHI: And then it’s just a role. It’s not the real life. In real life, I’m pro-peace. I love both sides. Yeah. So that was a fun part to play while I’m also hiding my art with the Iranian musicians. When I was–

DUBOWITZ: I want to talk to you about that.

CHARHI: Yes. Sure.

DUBOWITZ: So people know you from this Apple series, “Tehran.” By the way, for folks listening who haven’t watched it, it really is, it’s a remarkable series.

CHARHI: You just had a spoiler, so how will they watch it?

DUBOWITZ: I know. We try to give it a little bit of nuance so they don’t know quite what happened in the end. But it’s a remarkable series. I know season three is out in Israel.

CHARHI: In Israel, yeah.

DUBOWITZ: And it’ll be out soon in the United States and around the world.

CHARHI: Amazing actors, actresses. Production of two great ladies who took chance during the COVID to shoot it in Greece. Actually, there was streets in Greece that me and the Iranian actors from aboard thought they’re really, really walking in Iran. We thought there are like Iranian restaurants. And we didn’t realize that it’s production art. It looked so beautiful.

DUBOWITZ: Yeah. It’s a remarkably produced series, and really gripping and exciting. It reminded me of the very famous, also Israeli series, “Fauda.” And I think there’s some–

CHARHI: You know Israelis, we know how to make art.

DUBOWITZ: No, it’s great art. So let’s talk about your art, because you’re known for your music, and also singing in both Hebrew and in Farsi. Tell us a little bit about your music career, and particularly your decision to sing in–

CHARHI: Farsi.

DUBOWITZ: In Farsi, which is really unusual and interesting. And I guess, it’s also – you’re connected in some way to one of Israel’s most well-known singers, who also sings in Farsi. And really help revive this connection to Persian culture in Israel. Is that right?

CHARHI: Mm-hmm.

DUBOWITZ: Do you want to talk a bit about that?

CHARHI: I’ll talk about anything. I grew up in a very, very musical family. I had this mainstream career of doing films, acting in theater, also in TV series. It was going very well. And then I went to – had a PR tour in Los Angeles with an Israeli movie. Actually, it was my first movie called “Turn Left at the End of the World.” It’s Avi Nesher’s movie. And I revealed – I just found out that I have a lot of family in Los Angeles. And I felt the truth about people saying that Los Angeles is actually “Tehrangeles.” So I was digging inside the Iranian neighborhoods, trying to catch everything I can. That was the point that I realized I cannot neglect my roots; it is haunting me. And finally, in a good way, because I can actually walk inside Iranian neighborhoods and meet family, and people speak to me in Farsi. And I had two albums in Hebrew, which were okay, but I didn’t find my way to the Israeli music. Also, of course, I came from a beautiful family, which my aunt, Rita, is – It’s not just me that’s saying – she’s the best phenomenal singer in Israel, and she’s a great woman. So I got a lot of inspiration from her.

DUBOWITZ: And she sings also in both Hebrew and Farsi, correct?

CHARHI: Yes. She had an album in Farsi. Rita, she was born in Iran, and she moved to Israel when she was, I think, eight or nine. And, yes, she broke every wall, like every woman in my family, for freedom in a way, which was really, really exciting watching each one of them going through life and breaking walls. So I can say “Tehrangeles” was the first wall I broke inside myself. I was letting myself go to the Iranian vibes, family, food, art. I went to literature shops, reading suddenly Hafez and Rumi. And especially, I digged in into Iranian psychedelic ’70s music, which really, really filled my heart with hope. Because when I’ve heard the Iranian, especially Iranian women’s voices, I felt they have some thick layer of courage inside their voices, which I am not familiar from my family.

Before and after the revolution, it’s important to say Iranian women and men has something inside their veins who’s a little bit strict and very oppressed. It’s not about the extreme regime who said, “Okay. You must go with hijab. You must be religious.” Et cetera. It’s something inside our veins that doesn’t allow us to express ourself freely. It’s something that goes back, back, back at our – I don’t know if it’s genetic, if it’s energetic, but I can feel it. I grew up in a very, let’s say, liberal home. But I knew without talking about what are my rules and my boundaries inside home, when I supposed to get married, who am I supposed to be married to, et cetera. Nothing that was talking about it, but it was inside our veins. And no, I’m not allowing, even though I live in Israel, to have a boyfriend at some age and et cetera. So in “Tehrangeles,” I felt like the music and the psychedelic music is giving me a different angle about Iran and Iranian women. Because what I know is the music from ’50s, ’60s. They sang very polite and everything was also very…

DUBOWITZ: Very traditional.

CHARHI: Traditional. Thank you. And then I understand that musicians going to Europe to have music lessons and got back to Iran, and they wrote and sang, and the vibes were very, very much more multicultural, which was the first hint for me to understand that I don’t need to hide my Iranian roots, my Israeli behavior, because I have so many layers that can go and shine out via my art. Then I understood that I’m looking for my goal. When I got so much Iranian vibes, I said, “Okay. You got it. You love it. Now you have to know what you’re doing in life.” I was four years back and forth, Tel Aviv and Los Angeles. I had auditions. I played in Hollywood movies. It was really nice. But at some point, it was a bit boring for me to go from room to room and to say “Hi, I’m Liraz. I’m an actress, la, la, la, la.”

I really wanted to sing. I wanted to sing. And I wanted to bring a message. And for sure, my message was about the oppressed women in Iran. Because my love to the women of my family, I grew up to both grandmothers who got engaged at age 11 and got married when they were 13 and 15. They were little girls. And what’s the main thing that gave me strength in life is my grandmothers, and my mother and her sisters, because they had so many challenging life situations, but they – I won’t say situation. They had challenging life, you know. And they always choose to be happy, not being a victim of the circumstances. Just be happy, having eight kids, four kids, going from Iran to Israel.

My grandmother, my mom’s mom, she’s a singer, but she was not able to sing. And this fact literally crushed my heart because my grandfather promised her that she can sing in Israel. And when they moved here, he did not allow her to sing. She was singing in bar mitzvah and weddings. And he was always gesturing her the way back from the stage to sit. And I think this fact and the cultural oppressed vibes we have in our veins and the fact that until today, since revolution, Iranian women are not able to do this one pure, simple thing, and that is to sing, which is crazy. All of this and the ’70s psychedelic music of the sassiness, thickness, layers on women’s voices, like Googoosh and Ramesh, which I admire. That, by the way, stopped singing for 20 years and kept singing after they left Iran. So many stories. And I understood in Los Angeles that I need to sing for these ladies because I’m free to sing. For now, I’m still free to sing in Israel. You’re laughing.

(Laughter)

DUBOWITZ: I’m laughing. I think you’ll be okay. I know what you’re suggesting, but I think you’re going to be okay. What I’m interested to hear now is – so you discover this within yourself, the power of your voice, the power of your Iranian identity. And the recognition that as a free Israeli who is able to sing here in the 2020s, without people constraining you, without people oppressing you, you have all of these Iranian women who are living in the Islamic Republic who don’t have that freedom.

CHARHI: Yeah. And also –

DUBOWITZ: And don’t have that voice.

CHARHI: They don’t have that voice. And also, I’ve been following for the last almost 20 years, before it was the social media, Instagram, Telegram, et cetera. I’ve been following on women’s little revolutions in Iran, taking off the veil, taking off the hijab, dancing and singing in front of train stations, buses, police stations. They’ve been so powerful. And I was very curious about what the process is going to be until they get their freedom back. I was actually digging every internet website to read about them, the articles about them. Very, very small groups of powerful, courageous women who started the hijab revolution.

So all these stories came to my heart. And I understood that I can be the pipe of telling the story of these ladies with my grandmothers’ stories and with my story. I know my dad loves me very, very, very much, but he was preferring I would not sing. There is a thing in the Iranian… I don’t know how even to call it, but I can say it like that, it’s a fact. Artist is equal to be prostitute. For men as well, by the way, not only for women. It’s not appropriate to be an artist. Until today in Iran, my friends are not able to be artists. Even if they leave Iran and very successful aboard, their families in Iran are not accepting the fact that they are artists.

DUBOWITZ: Right. You want your sons and daughters to be doctors, and engineers, and entrepreneurs, and scientists. But there is that stereotype that to choose art, to choose music, to choose film, it’s too risky. You can’t make a living. Maybe it’s not just not appropriate for a nice Iranian girl or a nice Iranian boy.

CHARHI: I think it’s even more than appropriate or having money or – it’s something cheap, unfortunately. It’s weird, huh? It’s such a beautiful thing to sing and to be on stage, or to be a painter, or whatever. And it feels like – I’m not saying all of them, but they’re very strict about it, most of the families and people and-

DUBOWITZ: Yeah. You’re in defiance, in a sense, of a traditional culture, and a history of constraints and limitations. And to go out and sing, to go out and show your hair, to go out and sing, to go out and paint and to act, that’s an act of defiance. And I want to talk a little bit about that because obviously, it’s an act of defiance maybe within the family. But certainly, for these Iranian women inside the Islamic Republic, it is a major act of defiance because they’re really risking their lives.

I want to talk about the secret collaboration that you formed with Iranian women. How did you first connect with them? Tell us a little bit about even just the logistics of cutting an album and getting them on tour. Tell us a little bit about what you went through and the opportunity you gave to these Iranian women.

CHARHI: Actually, the first album I recorded, I got back to Israel from “Tehrangeles” with the very, very important decision of my life: I’m going to sing in Farsi for these ladies. I’m going to send them my music. And it was also for me because I wanted to break the first wall in my life, “I’m going to sing in Farsi.” You can imagine that I brought this idea to my team, and they were saying “Oh, Liraz, you got crazy. No one will listen to you when you sing in Farsi. You are going to miss all your fans. That’s a big mistake.”

Mark, it took me almost 10 years to make it happen. Actually, I got the courage until – sorry. I got the courage when I gave birth to my first daughter, June. So I released the first album. It was covers for the Iranian brave women in Iran who sang at the ’70s and got muted. And it was electronic vibes, beats, versions of the songs. And I send it to the world with my label. And then I don’t know how, but very, very quick, it got famous in Iran. There is a DJ who lives in Iran and in Berlin, in Tehran and Berlin, and she brought my music. And I think this is the reason that I found that women in Iran are listening to my music in very underground parties, taking off the hijab and wearing their Versace, Dolce Gabbana, and Armani suits underneath the hijab. I also got videos of this, and I was shocked.

DUBOWITZ: Do you think these women knew that you were Israeli?

CHARHI: Definitely. I’ll tell you why: because I don’t sound like Iranian singer. When I recorded my first album, my mom was saying to me with her thick accent, “Liraz, people will not understand. You have such a weird accent. You don’t sound like Iranian singer.” I said, “Mom, I don’t want to sound like Iranian singer.”

DUBOWITZ: You have a distinct identity as a Iranian-Israeli.

CHARHI: Yes. These are my layers and this is my story. And I don’t want to fake it. And this album is for my soul and for my sisters. And I think this accent really catched them. That’s the thing that catched them. There were saying, “How? Who is this weird girl from Israel, who sings in Farsi while she can sing in Hebrew? What’s going on here?” And the covers that I did was really different than the traditional Iranian music, so it took them to the dance floor. Then they started to follow me. I follow them. We became sisters, cooking together, watching each other’s stories. And especially, I got really, really friend with Iranian musicians, women. And suddenly, oh. She takes her tar and she sings to me, and I take her to my recording studio, and I showing it to my producer. And I was like, “Man, we have it. Let’s have a record with them.”

So I’m telling you it’s a light and very funny story, but it took time to convince them. Some of them started to create it, the album with me, and disappeared. And then they got back with another profile because they’re really afraid. But I can tell you that the women and the men that accepted this idea to collaborate were very, very brave. Even though they don’t have their names on the album, like anonymous names, they made a choice to record this album, to build the bridge of trying to understand and to bring peace to the world. We actually bringing this bridge to people to make them understand that Iran loves Israel and Israel loves Iran. And politics are above us, and we don’t care. So this album was recorded online.

DUBOWITZ: Was this “Zan Bezan?”

CHARHI: Yes. “Zan,” which means woman in Farsi. I had an angel, a musician angel. Wow. He opened actually POP Studio, which is, let’s say, the Iranian Abbey Roads. POP Studio is the studio where all my idols recorded their albums there. And he opened his Skype while he was recording the best musicians in Iran. I did not see them. I could just thank them. And he actually handle all the process of recording the tracks in Iran, brought it to Israel via, of course, the social media. And we matched all the tracks together, and we wrote together, we composed together. That was an extremely exciting journey.

DUBOWITZ: Wow. It’s amazing. Because of the power of social media and technology, you’re able to collaborate with these Iranian female musicians, a thousand plus miles from Tel Aviv, and produce this album. And from the album, you started to get this idea that you wanted to actually perform with these Iranian female musicians.

CHARHI: Yes. I was very rude to ask them first, to meet me and my Israeli band to record an album live together. To meet physically for the first time. So it was a year of production, managing, saying with security and Turkish production that really helped me to bring them from Iran to Istanbul. We recorded in Istanbul in a recording–

DUBOWITZ: Amazing.

CHARHI: Oh, it was a recording underground studio.

DUBOWITZ: But that must’ve been very scary. It must’ve been scary for–

CHARHI: Very scary.

DUBOWITZ: –these Iranian women to have to leave Iran, to go to Turkey. For you to go to Turkey as an Israeli. Turkey is a complicated place.

CHARHI: Yeah. It took us a year to build it. And while we were doing it, I was so stressed for these ladies and for my band because it’s a lot of responsibility. I was asking myself the whole process, “Why am I doing what I’m doing? This is crazy.” But the only answer I could give is that it’s not about me and it’s not about them. It’s not about only our story. I felt like a messenger through my art, via my art, to tell story about these two extreme – I don’t know how to call these countries, Israel and Iran. Extreme opposite countries, but we are the same.

DUBOWITZ: Well, that’s what always does amaze me. I’ve said this a few times on this show, is when you actually get beyond the politics, the geopolitics, the Islamic Republic and nuclear weapons and terrorism and proxies and missiles, which, of course, has become a even more prominent issue in the past year, when Iranians and Israelis get together, you can see there’s this instant connection.

CHARHI: Definitely.

DUBOWITZ: Cultural, historical, personal, social. As a non-Iranian, non-Israeli, when I’m in a room with Iranians and Israelis, within five minutes, they’re all ignoring me.

(Laughter)

 

DUBOWITZ: I might as well just leave or be a wallflower, because there’s an instant cultural connection. And I think you and I were talking about this before we started recording, but at pro-Israel demonstrations around the world now, the only other people that are there standing shoulder to shoulder with Jews–

CHARHI: We definitely share the same blood.

DUBOWITZ: –are Iranians.

CHARHI: Yeah. We are sharing the same blood. We have the same story. And we are not responsible of our story, but we do have responsibility of telling the story. And you were saying that I was hosting them on stage. That was the next step until we recorded “Roya,” which means a dream, a vision in Farsi. It’s a song that I’m promising myself to wave the highest flags that I can with my sisters on the way to our Azadi circle. “Azadi” is freedom, like to sing together. Our biggest dream is to sing in Iran and Israel when Iran will open.

DUBOWITZ: And by the way, just as a reminder to the listeners, so the “Roya” is the theme song for “The Iran Breakdown” podcast.

CHARHI: Yes.

DUBOWITZ: Which you generously allowed us to use.

CHARHI: I’m very happy about it.

DUBOWITZ: And it’s a very inspiring song. So talk a little bit about this collaboration that now moves beyond the recording to the live stage, and actually getting Iranian women on stage with you on tour in Europe. A big risk for Iranian women to perform. What kind of – tell us a little bit about that collaboration, the steps you took in order to protect the identities of these women. And what came out of that?

CHARHI: What really happened is that when “Roya” was out, and it was in big playlist in France, Germany, England, the hijab revolution started.

DUBOWITZ: The “Woman, Life, Freedom” movement.

CHARHI: Yes.

DUBOWITZ: Right.

CHARHI: The Zan, Zendegi, Azadi. And then it was crazy to see my sisters burning their hijabs, cutting their hairs, running in the streets for protests. And then our music is out. So it felt really, really, really correct to try to take them out of Iran. Because we had so much fun in the studio. It was fear and the most frightening thing and the most joyful thing. So we recorded 10 days live. And then when we said goodbye, we really cried our hearts out because we were really going to miss together. And I promised them that I would do my best. And then hijab protests start and revolution. And me and my manager, Dan, we asked every festival manager that hosted me on biggest stage in France, Germany, et cetera, to bring some of them on stage.

And that was another journey we needed to have because it was – Iranians cannot leave Iran if they’re not having a visa. The only place they can move to or to travel spontaneously is Turkey. So I had festivals in Denmark, France, Kraków, Germany. I really wanted to host them on stage. So actually, the people from Europe was very courageous and invited them with the artist visa. And we were on stage. It was the most phenomenal thing I’ve ever thought that people from Iran will be able to do. And we did it together. We were on stage. They were hidden with a glittery gold hijab. And we were performing for 10 to–

DUBOWITZ: So just to add to score, you were on stage with Iranian women who are hiding their faces behind-

CHARHI: Yes. Israeli and Iranian musicians. Yeah.

DUBOWITZ: Right. They’re having to hide their faces to protect them and their families.

CHARHI: Yes. That was another level of being scared. And I think the after-effect was even harder. Because we were doing it, we had a lot of… the blood was very, very… Let’s say hot blood. We were…

DUBOWITZ: Very passionate. Very emotional.

CHARHI: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my God, my English.

DUBOWITZ: No, it’s wonderful.

CHARHI: So we were very, very passionate. And it was like, okay, we’re doing it. We felt like a miracle is happening. The after-effect is that we understood that then when they’re on their way to Iran and at the airport, until the minute that they’re said, “Okay. Liraz, I’m home. I’m safe.” I think the times I had panic attacks, it was the first time I had panic attacks without even knowing I’m having panic attacks because when it’s touching you the first time, you don’t know it’s happening. When it’s catching you as like – it was on tour. I was with my family. And we were flying and they needed to land. And I did not have reception. I didn’t know what to do with myself.

DUBOWITZ: Well, because the risk they were taking was not only leaving Iran and performing in live concerts.

CHARHI: Yes.

DUBOWITZ: That’s enough of a defiance to the Islamic Republic. But they’re performing with an Israeli, which is-

CHARHI: And in a minute-

DUBOWITZ: That is, I imagine- Well, it is a crime within the Islamic Republic.

CHARHI: Yeah.

DUBOWITZ: These women could be arrested, jailed, tortured, and worse.

CHARHI: Yes. So I think the after-effect was being so frightened about the fact that something will happen to them. And we almost had an accident on the airport, but thank God everything went well. And I must say, and I’m happy to say, that two of the ladies who participated in this beautiful project left Iran because they had the artist visa in Europe and they had actually the papers that they can work aboard. And they left and they’re singing-

DUBOWITZ: And they’re safe.

CHARHI: Safe. Teaching music.

DUBOWITZ: Amazing.

CHARHI: Performing. And I’m so happy that they’re out of Iran and living their dream.

DUBOWITZ: The security of the women who remain in Iran, we don’t want to get into any details, but hopefully they’re safe.

CHARHI: Now they’re safe. Yeah.

DUBOWITZ: Now they’re safe. Let me ask you about the song “Roya.” We said earlier it’s the theme song for this podcast, but of course, it’s much more than that. In some respects, it also became a theme song for the Woman, Life, Freedom movement. Tell us a little bit about what happened and how- the feeling after this journey, Liraz, that you went through to hear your song “Roya” as one of the theme songs of this remarkable protest movement as Iranian woman took off their hijabs and defied the Islamic Republic.

CHARHI: I think because I’m writing about- All the lyrics I’m writing is about protests and about women’s rights and equal rights and also how beautiful women are and how the world should see women. And because Iran cannot- You cannot listen in Iranian radio a women’s voice. So I think the lyrics and the music, everything was really so true for the situation. And to watch videos of women make the revolution in Iran with this song was kind of … I don’t know how to say it. It was weird and happy at the same time, because I did not thought that it will go to this place when I recorded the music. And also, we felt very … All of us, the great musicians from Iran, we felt very, very proud. And the next level was when we got also videos with “Roya” song, with Iranian and Israeli flags together. And that point, I realized how much they longed to peace and how much they wished to be free and to be in Israel.

There is a next, next step after October 7th with the Iranians that always makes me understand that there is much, much more hope than I thought. After October 7th, things really, really changed, of course. Not only music and artistic-wise, all perspective and proportion of all of us changed. And that’s such a weird situation that we’ve been through with my Iranian friends. For example, I can say that my first great experience was that I was doing a PR tour with the hostages’ families in London. And I was in many rallies. And I saw Iranian and Israeli flags are waving up together at the sky. It’s not that I never thought that it could happen, but I never thought it will happen in this situation. That while they’re saying the Iranians … We have the same enemy.

And the hope that they are- their hopes are getting bigger because of October 7th. They’re actually, the Iranian, they are looking for the situation to solve their problem. They’re actually relying on Israel, on us, which things that I would never, never happen … that will never, never … Sorry. Things that I will never, never think that will happen. For example, getting videos on October 7th and 8 and 9, just after the war started, from Canada, from Iranian people holding Israeli flags in their hands. They’re not Jewish. They are understanding the situation, that we can be very, very powerful together.

So I’ve been in rallies in London and in Paris. And I see Iranian and Israeli flags together. During ’24, I had my concerts in Europe. Let’s say 80% of my concert got canceled because I’m Israeli. And there was a lot of security problems. And festivals and venues really, really got scared for bringing us, Israeli band, to Europe. But I traveled, I was flying every month to Berlin, to London, to Paris. And in every concert, I saw Israeli and Iranian flags in my concert.

DUBOWITZ: And by the way, just for listeners who are not Iranian, who may not fully appreciate, these are not the flags of the Islamic Republic.

CHARHI: No.

DUBOWITZ: No.

CHARHI: And also, these are not Iranian and these are not Israeli. You know what I mean? People who understands and knows my music and my fans understand the connection that’s happening during this war with the Israeli and the Iranians. So they brought flags together. Normally, I hold the Iranian flag in my concert when I’m speaking about the womens and singing about “Roya” and “Zan Bezan.” It’s a Iranian flag and with big letters of Woman, Life, Freedom; Zan, Zendegi, Azadi. I’m actually explaining people that women in Iran are still muted.

Most of the people doesn’t know what’s going on in Iran, which is weird. But I’m actually giving them the awareness of the situation. And what am I fighting for? What am I singing of? Because they don’t understand a word in Farsi. It’s like global music. They can hear Algerian, Iraqi, Turkish, but they don’t understand the words, so I’m explaining them. So they understood the situation of both of us, Iranian and Israeli side, so they started to bring the flags together, which is … I never thought it would happen.

DUBOWITZ: This is people in the audience that are coming to the shows, not Israelis necessarily. Not Iranians.

CHARHI: No. Identifying with the story and trying to make peace. And the next level was when Iran attacked Israel a couple of months ago. I didn’t know that. I was home. I think I was cooking, my husband was in the theater, he was on stage, girls were asleep. And suddenly, I’m looking at my phone and I see my phone is ringing and lots of lots of … Thousands of messages, Instagram, Telegram. What’s going on? And my friends from Iran, “Are you okay? Are you okay?” I said, “What’s going on?” “Well, Iran is attacking Israel.” I was like, “What? What the hell is going on here?”

DUBOWITZ: Wow. So you learned from your friends inside Iran-

CHARHI: This is like-

DUBOWITZ: -that the Islamic Republic was attacking you and your country.

CHARHI: Insane.

DUBOWITZ: Which is crazy.

CHARHI: I mean-

DUBOWITZ: You may have gotten earlier warning than even Mossad got about the attack that was coming.

CHARHI: Exactly. Exactly.

DUBOWITZ: Yes. No, interesting.

CHARHI: And then it took a couple of hours for the rockets to come.

DUBOWITZ: Right. All the missiles and the drones.

CHARHI: And the missiles. And like, “Oh, it’s not happening. Not yet. Not yet. I’m fine. I’m fine.” And okay.

DUBOWITZ: But your Iranian friends reaching out to you from Iran-

CHARHI: Yes. Definitely.

DUBOWITZ: -to see if you’re okay.

CHARHI: Definitely.

DUBOWITZ: Right. And that’s just the human dimension of the story that gets so lost in the discussions about geopolitics and security and terrorism, as I said.

CHARHI: Exactly.

DUBOWITZ: And nuclear weapons and the rest of it that we have to focus on. But again, I wanted you to come on this show, Liraz, to really talk about this personal dimension, this cultural dimension, this artistic dimension of this relationship between people. Not between governments. And again, not about geopolitics, but about art and the human connection. Tell us a little bit more about the song “Roya.” What is the song about aspirationally? And why, again, did it become one of the theme songs of Woman, Life, Freedom?

I just find it so fascinating that a song that, again, was co-produced between an Israeli-Iranian and Iranian musicians, females’ voice of hope, of dreams, becomes this mantra for Iranian women on the streets doing Women, Life, Freedom. A little bit more about this because our listeners are always hearing the theme song. What does “roya” mean?

CHARHI: Roya is a fantasy. It’s a dream. And when-

DUBOWITZ: Right. That’s a popular Iranian female name as well.

CHARHI: Yes, as well. Yeah. It’s a great name. So actually, it’s the theme song of this album. This album, the whole album is speaking about a situation between us, our dreams, our promises to each other, our faith, our courage on our way to Azadi, to freedom, to peace. When I wrote “Roya,” it was very clear to me that this is a promise song to myself and to my sister that we will make anything to be free together and to perform together. Because most of the time, in my concerts, people are waving with flags. I started this song with waving flags. That I promised myself to wave my biggest, highest flags for freedom until we will flag it … How do you say it? Until we will wave it together in Israel and in Iran.

I think the fantasy of building this album, it was a fantasy to me as well. And I was referring it metaphorically. If I will manage to create this dream, this roya, and to record this album, this is like the song. It’s going to happen. And the album happened. Now we just need to make it happened for real. And I have a great story about this song because we’ve recorded it live and with a tar and guitars and also with percussions. And it was a great experience to record it. But the last day, the 10th day of recording in Istanbul studio, we arrived, the Israelis and the Iranian with our suitcases to the recording studio. And we have to go to the airport and to say goodbye.

And I was telling Uri, my producer, if we have even 10 minutes left in the studio, let’s have a women’s version. Just the women unplugged and just recorded. So, at the end of the album, we have the last track of the acoustic, unplugged version of “Roya.” And it was the most magical thing I’ve ever done. Because we were the girls from my band and the girls from Iran. And I know it sounds very like … When you can imagine Israeli girls, you imagine them like hipsters. But when you imagine Iranian girls, you see them with hijabs. So no. They were coming inside the studio actually with long blonde hair, a Mikey Mouse T-shirt, and a beer in their hands. We are the same. I have to imagine you the picture of recording this “Roya” acoustic version.

So we’ve recorded it. And while we were recording it, we actually started to cry. And at the end of the song, I couldn’t even keep going and singing the last sentence. And we are crying together. And actually, we can hear it in the song. And we promised to ourself, we promised in the song that it won’t be the last time we’re seeing each other. And I don’t know if you know, if I told you, but I’m actually recording on video, on cameras, the whole process with them for years. And I’m producing a documentary movie. And I’m not afraid to say, even here, that I’m sure that Iran break down. And the last scene of our movie will be this “Roya” song. We are performing in Tehran and in Tel Aviv, in Iran and in Israel together holding hands. I have the guts that Iran will break down very soon.

DUBOWITZ: Well, I think that’s a wonderful moment to end on because it’s a constant theme of “The Iran Breakdown.” That we’re not just breaking down the issue, but we’re breaking down the regime. Episode by episode, voice by voice.

CHARHI: Yes. I do believe in it.

DUBOWITZ: I think the Islamic Republic has never been weaker. Never been weaker internally, economically, socially, politically. Millions of Iranians-

CHARHI: Oh, I have goosebumps.

DUBOWITZ: Yeah. Millions of Iranians have been on the streets since 2009 yelling, “Death to the dictator.” Asking American presidents, “Are you with us? Are you with the dictator?” I think your government has finally, after many years, appreciated that supporting the Iranian people has got to be a central pillar of Israeli strategy. And we’ve talked on this podcast in general terms, not in detail because it’s a public podcast being listened to inside Iran by many of the right people, but some of the wrong people, so we don’t want to get into too much detail. But the Israeli government and security establishment has adopted this strategy of maximum support for the Iranian people as part of maximum pressure on the regime.

And I hope that, as a result, your friends in Iran and other brave Iranians understand that it’s, today that actually, it’s Israel, that’s really supporting them. We’re going to work to make sure that the United States joins that effort. But it’s Israel. And also, Israel has gone after this axis of misery. Khomeini calls it the axis of resistance, but it’s an axis of misery. And in the past year, has done severe damage to this axis of misery by attacking Hezbollah and Hamas, and helping down the Assad regime, and neutralizing the threat from the Iraqi Shiite militias. And obviously, dealing with a Houthi threat, which I know you’re probably having to run to shelters regularly with your family when Houthi missiles are fired at Israel. But the good news is this regime is on its last legs. And it’s not-

CHARHI: I’m so happy to hear.

DUBOWITZ: -just going to be missiles and drones and planes that bring it down, but ultimately, it’s the Iranian people that are going to bring down the Islamic Republic. And then there’ll be a free Iran.

CHARHI: [inaudible].

DUBOWITZ: And then as we say, next you’re in a free Iran.

CHARHI: Yes.

DUBOWITZ: And then we can all go to your concerts with your Iranian friends and watch this in Tehran. That’s the dream?

CHARHI: That’s the dream.

DUBOWITZ: That’s the roya?

CHARHI: And Mark, thank you so much for having me here. And also, thank you for much for everything you’re doing. Because when I speak like this to people, people are looking at me very weird and saying, “Oh, you’re talking nonsense. You’re not the Mashiach.” I said, “I am not the Mashiach, but I have guts, and I have faith. And I know my brothers and my sisters from Iran. And I know they will break it down. And I know that this is …” We have been through such a crazy and bad times. And something will have to change for good. And that’s the crisis that will make it happen.

DUBOWITZ: I believe that.

CHARHI: I believe that too.

DUBOWITZ: You spent a lot of time in Tehrangeles, I have as well. But I grew up in Tehranto. Toronto, Canada.

CHARHI: Tehranto.

DUBOWITZ: Tehranto, which has a-

CHARHI: I love it.

DUBOWITZ: -huge Persian community.

CHARHI: I know.

DUBOWITZ: Incredibly successful, wonderful. And I’ve had the absolute privilege of spending a lot of time with Iranians outside of Iran.

CHARHI: You have to check your backgrounds. Maybe you have some Iranian roots.

DUBOWITZ: Maybe. Maybe.

CHARHI: You have to do it.

DUBOWITZ: I always thought it was Lithuanian, but there may be some connection to ancient Persia. Liraz, thank you. It was wonderful to have you.

CHARHI: Thank you so much.

DUBOWITZ: So wonderful to see you. And we’re going to do this again.

CHARHI: I really hope. Can I sing “Roya” for a second?

DUBOWITZ: Wow. That would be a wonderful idea.

CHARHI: Like unplugged. I don’t know. It’s morning and I didn’t do my vocals, but I feel like I need to sing it.

[Singing in Farsi]

DUBOWITZ: Wow. What a beautiful way to end. Thanks, Liraz.

CHARHI: Thank you so much.

DUBOWITZ: So that’s it for this episode of “The Iran Breakdown.” Today, we heard how Liraz Charhi, an Israeli artist with deep Iranian roots, is using music as a weapon against silence and fear inside the Islamic Republic. Her collaborations with brave women inside Iran and her powerful Persian language songs are proof that even under the weight of tyranny, art can punch back. Remember our podcast theme music? “Roya.” It means dream. But in Liraz’s hands, it’s not just a dream of freedom, it’s a warning to the regime. The voices you are trying to silence are only getting louder. So this isn’t just music, it’s defiance, and it’s one more crack in the foundation of the Islamic Republic. I’m Mark Dubowitz. Thanks for listening. This is “The Iran Breakdown.” Please join us for next episodes as we continue to break it down.