May 2, 2012 | Quote
Phone Logs Reveal Top Chinese Officials’ Knowledge of Organ Harvesting
Ethan Gutmann was provided with a translated transcript of the calls and asked to evaluate the information they provide on the subject of organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners. He also listened to the audio files on the WOIPFG website.
The Epoch Times (ET): What are your initial thoughts on the significance of these notes?
Ethan Gutmann (EG): The investigators were severely hampered by not being able to call on a secure line, a “red line.” They have no relationship to the subject, not even the fig-leaf of common associates or a well-known ongoing investigation. It’s the investigative equivalent of a crank call; every subject eventually realizes that it is wildly inappropriate to be discussing harvesting on a non-secure line with a potential imposter. Yet—and this is striking—not a single subject simply says: “What is this garbage? I don’t know what you are talking about.” Or alternately: “That’s a stupid rumor spread by Falun Gong. Who are you anyway?”
ET: Do you believe the calls are genuine, and if so, why?
EG: That’s the critical question. I suspect the calls are genuine for four reasons:
1) There is no perfect smoking gun, no point where the subject confirms Falun Gong harvesting in a nice, clean soundbite (although Li Changchun and Tang Junjie come awfully close). Fabricated evidence, because it takes more time and creativity than actual investigative work, is usually far more ambitious.
2) The investigator screws up in several calls, falling apart under counter-questioning. Same point: especially if you’re faking it, you want to appear professional. I applaud WOIPFG for releasing unsanitized tapes.
3) Subject transparency between 2008 and 2012 rises dramatically. That makes sense. China is in a leadership struggle and Jiang’s faction is on the defensive. Officials want to save their own hides; Tang Junjie appears eager to implicate Bo Xilai. It fits.
4) Wei Jianrong [head of the “Team Construction Office” of the PLAC] appears to sense that he is being recorded. To contain the damage he repeatedly insists that harvesting occurred “very early” and long ago. Precisely the way a guilty man operates under questioning: What exactly did I admit before? How much do they know? So you minimize the crime, suggest that the statute of limitations applies, and say that no one is a position to talk further.
ET: What role do you believe the security apparatus has played in the development of organ harvesting? Does this information change anything we know about organ harvesting in China, in particular the alleged practice of live organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners?
EG: It confirms some points we knew. Liaoning Province was a harvesting center. Military bases, and presumably, military hospitals, were used as detention bases. As we surmised through Wang Lijun’s oversight of thousands of transplant operations, Bo Xilai was involved.