Crossfire

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: Back when it was a great show, Bill.

Thank you very much for coming back. It’s really an honor to have back in the CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

NOVAK: I can’t tell you how great it is to have you back, Bill. I’ll see you…

BILL PRESS, BILLPRESS.COM: Bob, I can’t tell you how good it is to see you.

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: I see you haven’t any more sense now than you had before.

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: Here I am.

NOVAK: I hear you’re — I hear you’re going around saying that the president, your president, our president, should go wringing his hands to Washington — to Paris, to — and all over Europe, saying, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry.

But let me tell you what he did say today. And let’s listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: All nations now have an interest in the success of a free and democratic Iraq, which will fight terror, which will be a bacon of freedom, and which will be a true — a source of true stability in the region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Isn’t that — isn’t that the message that’s proper? Whatever has been in the past, these people ought to step up to the line and help the United States develop a free Iraq?

PRESS: I think the message that’s proper over there is, Bush — George Bush should say, I was wrong and you were right. We should not have gone into Iraq. There were no weapons of mass destruction.

If we had listened to the French and the Germans, there would have been — Saddam Hussein, I’m convinced, would have been out of power one way or the other. There would have been a smooth transition. Iraq would not be a new breeding ground for terrorism. And 1,500 Americans would be alive today that were killed in Iraq.

(APPLAUSE)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Here’s what President Chirac said. President Chirac was right, Cliff. Here’s President Chirac, the president of France. He was interviewed by the British back in November of ’04. Here’ what he said about our occupation and what it’s doing to hurt the war on terror — quote — “To a certain extent, Saddam Hussein’s departure was a positive thing. But it also provoked reactions, such as the mobilization in a number of countries of men and women of Islam, which has made the world more dangerous.”

Now, I think he’s right. But it doesn’t matter what I think. Porter Goss, the president’s choice to run the CIA, just last week said Chirac was right. Here’s Porter Goss saying the same thing that Chirac was trying to tell us months ago. Here’s Porter Goss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PORTER GOSS, CIA DIRECTOR: Islamic extremists are exploiting the Iraqi conflict to recruit new anti-U.S. jihadists. Those jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced and focused on acts of urban terrorism. They represent a potential pool of contacts to build transnational terrorist cells, groups and networks in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Isn’t Bill Press right? Shouldn’t the president say, Mr. — President Chirac, you were right and I was wrong?

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: No, I don’t.

First of all, I don’t think the president shouldn’t apologize for liberating millions of people in Afghanistan, in Iraq.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Chirac was right that…

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: … our invasion helped the terrorists.

MAY: I don’t think he should apologize for wanting liberty and democracy for people, rather than stability.

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: … answer the question.

MAY: The question is what again?

BEGALA: Chirac was right. Our engagement of Iraq has helped the terrorists, and the says so.

MAY: He doesn’t actually say so. You’re misinterpreting what he said. First of all, two things. One is, during the 1990s, there were terrorists who were trained and who mobilized against us. Or have you forgotten 9/11? Second, he said those that survived…

BEGALA: Were they from Iraq?

MAY: Those that survived, enough — yes, some of them may have been from Salman Pak.

You guys can say what you want. But we know that Salman Pak was a terrorist training camp. Look, those that survived, the terrorists who are in Iraq right now, if we were to leave there, would not go back to Karachi and open up an aerobics studio. They are there to fight us. Do they use Iraq as a mobilization tool? Yes. What did they use as a mobilization tool during the 1990s? They had plenty.

NOVAK: Bill Press, there’s another view of Chirac, and it’s by the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Joe Biden. He met with Chirac on February 9. And here’s what Senator Biden said.

He said: ” I think he,” Chirac, “was saying, I’m not ready to step in and do the heavy lifting with boots on the ground. But you might make it, so I want to get in on the deal.” He’s calculating. This is what Joe Biden says. “He wants to keep one foot on the platform and one foot on the train because the train might leave.”

Now, why don’t you be a patriot and say, what — the president shouldn’t got hat in hand to Chirac, but should say, hey, man, if you want to make a deal, you got to be a little more forthcoming?

PRESS: Look, Bob, as you know, I’m a native of Delaware. Joe Biden’s a good friend. He’s a good senator. I disagree with him at times.

I think Chirac again was right about not rushing into Iraq. We should have given the inspectors more time. And I think the president could get Chirac’s cooperation if we just show a little humility, which he said, remember, I’m going to have a humble foreign policy.

(APPLAUSE)

PRESS: This is the most arrogant foreign policy we’ve seen.

The French are helping us out on Pakistan. They’re helping us out in Kosovo. They would help us out on Iraq if George Bush would just say, you know, Jacques, right, I was wrong then. I’m right now. I need your help. How about it, buddy?

He’d get it.

BEGALA: OK, we’re going to have to take a quick break. Bill Press, Cliff May, hang on just a second.

When we come back, as they used to say on “Monty Python,” something completely different, the secret tapes of private conversations with George W. Bush before he became president. Do they show a man conniving to hide prior drug use and using his religious faith as a prop? We’ll discuss that next.

And then, right after the break, a 7-year-old boy and his pregnant mother are missing in Texas. Wolf Blitzer has the latest on the search.

Stay with us.
NOVAK: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

A man named Doug Wead has released secretly-recorded tapes with then-Texas Governor George W. Bush. On them, George W. Bush talks about his faith, running for president and why he wouldn’t answer questions about drug use. Is this a smarmy invasion of privacy and trust by somebody the president considered a friend?

Still with us, the old Democratic boss from California, my former CROSSFIRE co-host Bill Press.

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: And former Republican National Committee communications director Cliff May.

BEGALA: Cliff, not to do your job for you, but of course it’s a smarmy invasion of privacy by a loathsome person. It is horrible. Now, I thought that when Linda Tripp was taping her friends, President Bush’s friend taping him. I’m at least consistent on that.

I will also say, I went on national television in 1999 and excoriated journalists who were trying to ask Mr. Bush about prior drug use. I thought he had a right to refuse those questions.

NOVAK: But. I’m waiting for the but.

(LAUGHTER) MAY: Yes, right.

(CROSSTALK)

MAY: We agree.

BEGALA: And so, it’s really interesting how he talked about it on this tape to the — the aptly-named Mr. Wead. Here’s the president talking with — on the Wead tapes, we should call them, I guess.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BUSH: Well, Doug, but it’s not — it doesn’t matter, cocaine. It’d be the same with marijuana. I wouldn’t answer the marijuana question. You know why? Because I don’t want some little kid doing what I tried.

WEAD: Yes, and it never stops, of course.

BUSH: But you got to understand, I want to be president. I want to lead. I want to set — Do you want your little kid say, Hey, Daddy, President Bush tried marijuana; I think I will?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: What’s really astonishing of that is just how completely phony that excuse is. The president decided — governor then — decided not to talk about alleged prior drug use because he didn’t want to, because he couldn’t. And I respect that. It wasn’t for the children, or he wouldn’t talk about how he was drunk for half his life, would he?

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

MAY: First, I got to say, I agree with you that what this guy Wead did was absolutely deceptive and duplicitous and is awful.

Second, there is nothing surprising about this. He suggested he tried marijuana. We don’t know if he inhaled.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: I don’t want to know. I’m just saying, isn’t…

MAY: We just don’t know.

BEGALA: Isn’t he full of beans when he says it’s for the children?

(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: Does he want children to get drunk?

MAY: I think…

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Because he talks about being a drunk every time he opens his fool mouth.

MAY: He’s agreeing with you that, when you answer too many of these questions, people say, you know what? If the president tried it, it’s OK for me to try it.

I mean, would you be — how would you like it if your kids came to you and asked you about all the things you did as a youth?

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: They can, actually. I never used drugs.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: Wait a minute. My kids know that — my kids know I smoked pot, and they still love me.

NOVAK: You still smoke it, don’t you?

(LAUGHTER)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

NOVAK: Bill, Bill, Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary, said that these were casual conversations that then- Governor Bush was having with someone he thought was a friend. Now, I’ve had some casual conversations with you.

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: And I taped every one of them.

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: But I don’t worry about anything I said. But you said some things that were really outrageous.

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: Would you like — would you like it? Seriously…

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: I’m being very serious. How would you feel about having — when you thought you were speaking in confidence, and I’d been taping it, and I said, gee, what did Bill Press say about so and so, about this person, about that person? Isn’t that just the worst thing you can do? PRESS: Look, Bob, I think all of us agree that Doug Wead is scum. It was totally unethical for him to tape those conversations.

NOVAK: Then why are talking about this?

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: I’ll tell you why — no, no. I’ll tell you why, because, look, it’s like when a guy goes to a house of prostitution. She may be a whore, but that doesn’t make him a paragon of virtue. And I think these…

NOVAK: Wait. I got to figure that analogy out. Do you understand that?

MAY: I’m taking notes here.

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: I think these tapes say something about George Bush that we didn’t know before.

NOVAK: What?

PRESS: I think it shows that he is very cold, very calculating about everything, including his religion.

NOVAK: Oh.

PRESS: It says on the tape that he would practice his phrases. He would practice his buzz words. He would rehearse his lines before he met with religious conservatives. Bob, that’s not a man of faith. That’s of cold, political calculation.

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

MAY: Excuse me. Excuse me. We’re all…

BEGALA: Here’s the president on those tapes.

MAY: We’re all shocked, political consultants, hearing about a politician rehearsing. I never heard of such a thing.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: … about religion.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Let me read you — we don’t have it on the audiotape, but we do have transcripts from “The New York Times.” This is the president talking about how he’s going to manipulate people to — about his faith. “There are some code words,” Mr. Bush. “There are — there are some proper ways to say things and some improper ways. And I am going to say that I’ve accepted Christ into my life. And that’s a true statement.”

NOVAK: What’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with that?

BEGALA: It’s calculating, isn’t it, Cliff?

MAY: It’s calculating. Politicians might be calculating. This is said by a political handler. I can’t believe this.

Look, what you find on these tapes is that Bush is not very different on tape, on background, in private conversation or in public. Actually, I’m amazed how much it’s the same guy.

(CROSSTALK)

MAY: That you discuss how you’re going to phrase things on the stump? Come on. Of course you do.

(CROSSTALK)

MAY: And you made hundreds of thousands of dollars telling people how to phrase things on the stump.

(APPLAUSE)

MAY: Millions. Millions. I know you have.

NOVAK: Bill, when you were the Democratic state chairman of California, you lost every race you ever managed. But…

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: He always says that, even though it’s not true. Go ahead.

(LAUGHTER)

NOVAK: But would you — would — you think this would have hurt George W. Bush last fall, if they had known this last fall?

PRESS: I think, if this had come out before the election, it would have hurt George W. Bush, because, it shows — again, I come back, you have to question whether his faith is sincere or purely political.

NOVAK: Cliff May, thank you. Bill Press, thank you.