American Morning

Let’s debate that issue now with our Democratic consultant, Victor Kamber. Vic, good morning to you.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Also, former RNC communications director Clifford May.

Cliff, good morning, as well.

CLIFFORD MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning.

HEMMER: Cliff, start with you.

Does this contribute, these missing explosives, does it contribute to the claim that this was mishandled? MAY: I think that’s the idea here. But let’s understand something.

Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, the senior foreign policy adviser to Senator Kerry, said yesterday we don’t know what happened here. Surely we can agree, Victor and I, that if we don’t know what happened here, for Senator Kerry to try to take partisan advantage from it would absolutely irresponsible.

Secondly, let me point out this. These weapons Saddam Hussein should not have had all these years. They were prohibited under the agreements of 1991. This shows yet again that the U.N. was not doing its job.

And thirdly, the charge is, on its face, very unlikely. We’re talking about, as Heidi said, 400 tons of weapons. You don’t stuff that — looters don’t stuff that into their pockets and purses. You need 40 trucks to do it. That could have happened before the U.S. occupation. Forty trucks did not move across Iraq with that kind of explosives after the U.S. was there.

HEMMER: Let me get Vic to respond to all three.

Victor?

KAMBER: Well, it’s the if it, could have, would have situation that he’s talking about. What we do know, I agree, we cannot put blame without knowing. But let’s look at what we do know. We do know there were massive munitions there in that situation. We have an international nuclear agency that informed the United States beforehand that these — that this massive weapon — not weapons, but…

MAY: Explosives.

KAMBER: … explosives were located there. We also know for a fact that the internal government, the puppet government of George Bush, the government that we put in place, claimed that those explosives were taken after we had come into Iraq. And we have a third independent source, journalist — sometimes not so independent — a journalistic source who indicated that while she was there with the troops, there was no inspections made.

Now, the biggest question to me is George Bush, Dick Cheney knew about this issue months ago. It’s not something that they just happened to pick up the “New York Times” and read. As we know, the president doesn’t even read the paper. But they knew this months ago and they’ve kept it a secret from the American public.

HEMMER: Let me get back to Cliff on this.

You’re muttering the words not true during this.

Why, Cliff?

MAY: Well, we have not a shred of evidence that the explosives that we’re talking about, including explosives that could be used to detonate a nuclear weapon, were at the camp at the time that the Americans first got there. The Americans got…

KAMBER: I didn’t say that, Cliff.

MAY: … to this facility…

KAMBER: I didn’t say that.

MAY: You said the Iraqis said so and they didn’t…

KAMBER: The Iraqis, yes.

MAY: No. They said April. We got, our troops got there, the 101st Airborne, on April 10, the day after Baghdad fell.

KAMBER: So the puppet government is lying.

MAY: No, the puppet government of — the so-called puppet government, and I think it’s outrageous that you’d call it that…

KAMBER: What else is it?

MAY: That this government that has been in — this government is the interim government that is a whole lot better than Saddam Hussein’s and that precedes what we will hope will be a democratic process.

KAMBER: And you’re saying…

(CROSSTALK)

MAY: No, I’m not saying…

HEMMER: Let me just — let me try to…

MAY: Between April and — look, very simple…

HEMMER: Let me try and advance this conversation, just for the sake of our viewers here.

If John Kerry wins on Tuesday, what will change in Iraq under his presidency?

Vic?

KAMBER: I think he’ll reach out to other leaders in the world to try to have them join in. I think he’ll sit down with the U.N. and try to bring about a greater participation in trying to end the insurgency that exists there. We’re not — it’s not going to happen overnight. If the question was on Tuesday or November, or Wednesday, November 3, John Kerry, when he’s elected president, all of a sudden everything’s hunky dory, no. It’s a new leader. It’s a new image. It’s a new time. And I think he begins changing that whole process of what we have today. MAY: We have no idea, unfortunately, what John Kerry would do if he became president in regard to Iraq. At times he has said that he would fight the insurgency. At times he has indicated that he would get us out of there.

Vic really thinks that the French Foreign Legion is coming in just because Senator Kerry goes off and has Chablis and Common Bear (ph) with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Jacques Chirac…

KAMBER: I think more than one Canadian is going to be with us.

MAY: It’s not happening. Oh, great. We’re going to get the Canadians in there and that’s going to be…

KAMBER: Like more than one…

MAY: … and that’s going to resolve…

KAMBER: … Canadian is going to be with us.

MAY: I love the Canadians, but look. That’s…

KAMBER: That’s all I’m saying.

MAY: What, look, but you agree with me that if we don’t know what happened, Kerry should not be running ads trying to place the blame on Bush…

KAMBER: I blame Bush…

MAY: … when he doesn’t know the answer.

KAMBER: … for not being honest with the American public, for not sharing with the American public…

MAY: Well, hundreds…

KAMBER: … a problem.

MAY: Hundreds of thousands of tons of explosives and munitions have been destroyed in Iraq by…

KAMBER: Give him credit. Give him credit for what he’s done, but also let’s question him for what he hasn’t done.

HEMMER: And, Cliff, get in your point…

MAY: No.

HEMMER: Then Victor, I want a response. Then we’re going to wrap it up.

MAY: Let me just also point out this. If, as it appears, a high U.N. official leaked this story to the “New York Times” in order to influence American elections, this is a scandal of major proportions and I hope the media will look into that very thoroughly. HEMMER: Victor, you get the last word.

KAMBER: Oh, if it’s a scandal, it should be looked into. If a foreign leader intruded, including the president of Iraq, who intruded to try to help George Bush, let’s investigative, let’s scandalize it. We have an election next week. Let’s elect John Kerry.

HEMMER: Thank you, gentlemen.

Victor Kamber, Clifford May, thanks for your time today.

MAY: Thank you.

HEMMER: Kamber and May — Soledad.