May 18, 2004 | Broadcast
CNN American Morning
Top U.S. administrator Paul Bremer praising Salim and promising not to give up on the goal of a democratic Iraq.
Also, U.S. troops have reportedly killed nine militiamen doing — during, rather, ongoing battles in Karbala. Explosions and heavy gunfire have also been heard in Najaf.
Meanwhile, U.S. investigators in Iraq testing a shell that has initially tested positive for a banned substance in Iraq. But again today, there are questions ultimately as to what it is.
And David Ensor, our national security correspondent, tracking this now from D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The suspect artillery shell was discovered Saturday near Baghdad Airport.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time, and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED.
ENSOR: An IED, in improvised explosive device made from what insurgents may have thought was a conventional 155-millimeter artillery shell, like the many that are all over Iraq.
A few soldiers who helped transport the exploded shell got mild symptoms consistent with exposure to sarin gas. They got quick treatment. They were lucky.
JONATHAN TUCKER, CHEM-BIO WEAPONS EXPERT: At higher doses there would be muscle spasms followed by convulsions and finally death by respiratory paralysis.
ENSOR: The exploded shell is in the hands of the Iraq survey group, the team led by the CIA’s Charles Dulfer (ph), searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Officials say additional tests must be done to make sure it really is sarin gas.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have to be careful.
ENSOR: If it is sarin gas, it would follow the discovery of a mustard gas shell about 10 days ago. If there are many more of them out there, that could help the president deflect criticism over his argument that weapons of mass destruction in Iraq were reason enough to go to war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be the first evidence in this conflict that the chemical weapons that Saddam Hussein once had and we had no evidence of destruction, might now be surfacing and might be used against our troops.
ENSOR (on camera): In 1990, Iraq admitted to the U.N. that it had built some sarin gas artillery shells, prototypes it insisted had all been destroyed during testing. It now appears that was not true.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: In the days and weeks after the Iraq war more than a year ago, a number of false leads were found. Field testing turned up positive initially, later then negative. Part of the reason why there is cause for pause on this today — Soledad.
SOLEDAD O’BRIEN, CO-HOST: Lots to talk about, in fact, out of Iraq this morning, including that killing of the former Iraqi Governing Council president.
From Washington, we have Kamber and May. Democratic consultant Victor Kamber joins us, also. Good morning, Victor.
VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Morning, Soledad.
O’BRIEN: And former RNC communications director Cliff May, who’s now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
Good morning to both of you.
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Soledad.
O’BRIEN: All right. Let’s get going. Let’s start, in fact, with the killing of the president of the Iraqi Governing Council.
How do you think, Victor, that this tragedy should affect the handover? Do you think it should affect the handover at all, and how do you think it will affect the handover?
KAMBER: Well, I would hope it will not, but it most certainly will. It once again shows that I think the people of Iraq are not yet ready to take leadership in their own way, that there’s no protection without us. There’s no controls without us.
I mean, we are the police force, and as much as we’d like to, many of us, would like to pull out and get done and be over, we’re going to be there for a long time.
The turnover on June 30 is nothing more than, frankly, a political smokescreen. I wish it would work, I would hope it would work, but the reality is, as we saw yesterday, there’s no way to protect those leaders, those puppet leaders that are going to be put in office.
O’BRIEN: Some of those leaders would say, you know, if you guys are there already and you’re not protecting us, so you should hand over power on the 30th and we’ll see what happens from there.
Where do you weigh in on this, Cliff?
MAY: Well, what this shows is how dangerous it is to be an Iraqi who is for freedom, for democracy, willing to work with the Americans towards those goals, because there are terrorists all over that country, the same people who killed Nick Berg and sliced his head off. They also killed, now a Shia leader.
But that also sends this message. The Shia understand that if we leave them, abandon them to these terrorists, it’s going to mean an incredible slaughter.
If the Shia are with us, and the Kurds have been with us for the very beginning, that’s 80 percent of the Iraqi population that wants our continuing assistance until we get Iraq free, democratic, stable and secure.
KAMBER: I’m not sure, Soledad, that we disagree. That’s the point. The difference is the length of time, who else should help in this process, and how real this turnover is on June 30?
O’BRIEN: Well, I was going to ask Cliff that. OK. Does that mean, Cliff, staying for the long haul? Does that mean more international troops and how many do you envision if the answer is yes?
MAY: We need to be there, and we welcome any international troops we can get. But keep in mind, it’s not likely the French under any circumstances are going to send troops in to hunt down the terrorists. They’re not doing it anywhere else in the world with us. They’re not going to do it there. We welcome other troops. But this is also not a job for peacekeepers. Peacekeepers by definition take over once there is peace. Only the U.S. has the ability, and we’re only learning that ability, to fight these terrible terrorists and insurgents in Iraq, with the help from the British, with the help from the Italians, with the help from the Poles and any other help we can get, we’ll take.
O’BRIEN: Senator Jon Corzine earlier this morning said he thinks — essentially, I’m paraphrasing him, of course — he think it’s ridiculous. He says you’re going to have bigger problems if you make this deadline than if you miss the deadline.
What do you think about that, Victor?
KAMBER: I agree. The deadline is a self-imposed one that we put there, I think primarily for political reasons. George Bush read the polls, read that he had to take some action. So he set an arbitrary date of June 30.
The reality is, we are no more ready to turn over, they are no more ready to receive leadership in the true sense. If we’re talking about a puppet government, yes, we can do that.
We can establish Mary Jones is now the head or Bill Jones is now the head of Iraq. And we’re still going to have 135,000 troops and our generals claim we need another 50,000 there to store up that government. Excuse me.
But the fact is we’re not turning over real control or leadership or anything else. It’s no different than the District of Columbia, representation without votes.
MAY: Just the opposite.
O’BRIEN: Bill doesn’t sound very Iraq.
But I’ve got to get another question in, because I want to ask about gas prices. President Bill Jones doesn’t sound like an Iraqi to me, but you know, I guess you’re just using an example there.
Cliff, let’s talk about gas prices; $2 is the average for the first time now. Some Senate Democrats are apparently planning to call on the administration to release some of those millions of barrels of oil from the strategic petroleum reserves.
Why not?
MAY: Because the strategic petroleum reserves have a specific use. It’s to tell the Saudis and others that we can — we will not succumb to oil blackmail or oil used as a weapon.
There are other things we can do. First of all, let’s everybody recognize, those who said that we were going into Iraq for the oil, ain’t true. Obviously, it’s not — that’s not the case.
Second, we can drill in the U.S. If not now, when should we drill up in ANWAR? We can protect the caribou out there while we get the oil out from under the ground.
Third, it’s time to look seriously — And neither Kerry nor Bush are doing this — at nonpetroleum alternatives that you can use to fill your car. The technology is there. It just needs a boost.
Also, we can reduce taxes. And also, I know this is politically hard, but ethanol is part of the problem here. The farmers like it, but it increases the price of gas and probably refineries. If you don’t build some more you can’t get enough gas out for the summer brew that under law you have to have.
O’BRIEN: All right, Vic, you heard that long list of why we shouldn’t do it. Again, Senate Democrats say they want to call for the president to release some of those strategic reserves. Do you think it’s…
KAMMBER: There’s only two — There’s only two things we can do in the short run.
Cliff’s list will take years. I mean, to deal with ANWAR, to deal with any of the problems he said. It’s not going to happen this summer.
One, we can release reserves immediately, which there’s no question we should do. And, we should two turn to George Bush’s good friends in Saudi Arabia, his good friends in some of those other Arab countries that he claims are his allies and pals and just demand at that table, sit down with those OPEC leaders, that he wants the price of those gasoline barrels down.
And he did say — it wasn’t some stranger said oil in Iraq. But George Bush that said we’re going to use the oil in Iraq to pay for the war in Iraq. That hasn’t happened. Another lie to the American public. We’re paying for the oil in Iraq and the oil in the United States.
O’BRIEN: That’s our final word this morning. Victor Kamber, Cliff May joining us. Nice to see you, as always. We’ll check in with you next time — Bill.